Lurker roll call - give us a comment, then!

Roger Saner's picture

Now that the site is back up (sorry!) and the database is running off the local server (instead of a Media Temple grid server)...it's time to say, "Happy New Year!" (if you noticed a slight logical anomaly in that sentence, give yourself 10 points. If you find yourself annoyed by a full stop in the middle of a sentence already in brackets, subtract 5 points. You too, Linda!).

The future stretches ahead of us in the form of 2008. 365 and a 1/4 days of...[insert wishful thinking here]. And some of that time will hopefully be spent on this site (give yourself 10 points if you picked up the split infinitive). Which brings me to the core of this post: we have over 240 registered users and about 80 who regularly read the posts on Emerging Africa (if you've noted the recent subtle change from "Emergent" to "Emerging" give youself 10 points. If you know why, give yourself another 10. If you're still annoyed by overlong parenthetical thoughts, subtract 5 points). If you're someone who kinda hangs on the periphery of this site, someone who reads the posts or comments but hasn't made yourself known, now is the time!

But firstly give yourself 20 points, because you are what is known in the social internet world as a "lurker" (note: this is nothing to do with zombies. "Lurching" is definitely less socially acceptable than "lurking". "Lurching" may well make for embarrassed conversation at those family dinners; lurking just keeps you invisible).

So most people know what a lurker is, if you don’t, let me pull you out of your hole by saying that a lurker is a person that decides to stay shy in either a chat room, a forum or a blog, by not contributing their comments and electing to just watch the babble ensue in front of them. Now that made no sense, but I’m sure you got it.
Bryan Veloso

So, leave a comment and tell us something about yourself: who you are, where you’re from, what you do, whatever.

Sites like this one work best with user interaction. Sure, there may well be people in Israel who are happy to just read what's going on and stay anonymous, but even then, those who write a lot find it more stimulating when there's a sense of a wider audience. So make a comment! You can do it! (If you need some encouragement, give yourself a tentative 1/2 a point, then watch Shrek. Shrek always encourages me.)

Oh, and let us know how many points you got. Points are important.

Oh oh (that's like a "P.P.S") - regulars can comment too, of course. You might just find someone who lives over the road from you.

Comments

Roger Saner's picture

Me first!

Hi, I'm Roger, I scored 15 points. I'm a freelance web developer living in Joburg but about to move to Pretoria to join a new monastic community. Very shortly I hope to move into interactive visual art and make that a bit of a career. I enjoy Terry Pratchett, writing about Apple Macs, blogging about the emerging church in South Africa, and good coffee.

envoy's picture

Me second!

Hi, I'm Tim.

I'm married to Bev and we're about to have our first child toward the end of April. I make maps, do some web design, write a little and do some editing, but mostly work as a spiritual consultant. I drink lots of coffee with people who want to explore spirituality and are open to Christ and/or the Spirit but closed to Christianity. I blog a bit.

Envoy

Lurking and commenting

Will, I've commented a few times on this blog, and I've heard a lot about "emerging", but not much conversation.

New monasticism

And I'd like to hear more from Roger about his joining a new monastic community :-) Sounds interesting!

I've just written something on it, with links tio other articl;es, here:

http://khanya.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/new-monasticism-revisited/

nicpaton's picture

outed

I am Nic Paton of Cape Town.

I am a heterodox follower of Christ. I am interested in the meeting points of the sacred, the creative and the communal. I envision a community that is more like tribe than "church". I am exploring the revival of ancient ways, and look for spirituality in a more primal way of interacting with G-d and the cosmos. I leave out the vowel in honour of the "unbeheld".

I blog on soundandsilence.wordpress.com.

And in closing I note that only the non lurkers are being delurked. But Mr Saner I commend you on your efforts to out us.

ok ok i've been stalling for too long

Hi my name is Lauren. Kevin is my husband. He was called a heretic on his first post and most others after that (remember the easter passover problems, homosexuality and bible inerrancy!!!) . So i decided reading was safer!!

At one stage last year emergent africa was my church. One of Linda's posts made me cry, firstly because she was the first person in a while to be honestly asking the questions i was asking, but then i cried even more because she was cyberspace. I am in cape town and she was not. Anyway it was still good to know that somewhere out there not too far away, there was someone who could possibly understand my journey. So thank you Linda for your honesty and vulnerability it did help me through a lonely time.

I am a photographer. At the moment i am lecturing and freelancing. We are now attending a small traditional presbysterian/congregational church where we are the conservatives for a change. It is great to be able to ask any questions we like and not feel heretical for asking them. We are also meeting randomly with people who are doing great new creative things.

What i dream about is creative meetings with God, discussions, questions, environement, photography, antiques, analysing, rising interest rates:(!!, politics, holidays, movies, the poor, gender, homosexuality, hell, heaven, friendship, my husband.

So to end my coming out blog, i just want to say thanks for the blogs. sorry i was such a wimp but give us lurkers a bit of understanding: it is quite scary to put yourself out there, because some people don't realise there is a real person behind that screen. But thanks for kicking my butt because lazyiness was a small part of the probelm :)

nicpaton's picture

i see that hand...

Lauren I hope you write online more. It's lucid, challenging, broad, refreshing.
Don't be afraid of the label "heretic" - It's a virtue.
Now, where are those photos of yours?

Why the name change?

Hi all

I'm a 26-year-old newspaper editor living in Cape Town. I'm married to Lauren, a photographer and lecturer. I have a degree in English and Theology from UNISA. Before I started describing myself as a recovering fundamentalist, I used to head up the creative arts and preach occasionally at a fairly large charismatic church in the Southern Suburbs, but left because we agreed to disagree about whether Christians should be sexist or not. These days, we attend a Congregational/Presbyterian church where we're relieved to be the most conservative Christians in the room for a change. It's probably an interim measure until we feel it's time to help start something small with some friends, which is likely to be full of creative liturgies and discussions on the cross, the kingdom, gender, homosexuality, heaven and hell, justice, culture, and the environment. Really enjoying the spacious place we're in for now though.

Would love to be able to blog on the site more, but life gets crazy around newspaper deadlines, which come every two weeks for me. But I enjoy reading everyone's musings even when I don't get a chance to comment.

Roger, not sure what I score, but I am wondering why you changed the name? If you're still in Cape Town, would be great to connect...

Kevin

Roger Saner's picture

Cape Town coffee

I'm still in Cape Town until Thursday, Kevin - how about coffee - or taking you up on your dinner offer? I'm staying with Tim and Bev in Kenilworth...

I changed the name to "Emerging" because "Emergent" refers to "Emergent Village", the organisation in American to which Tony Jones and Brian McLaren belong to: it is a subset of the global emerging church conversation.

Carl's picture

we are lurchers all

Carl Brook here. I am not albino and will change my picture soon.

I facilitate a Bible school on the lower KZN coast, reaching mainly Xhosa and Zulu communities. I'm interested in post-colonial conversations, though I agree with Steve (not verified) that on this site they seem very few and far between.

carlbrook.wordpress.com

Stray's picture

Lurk is a great word

I guess I'm not a lurker here... sometimes I think I may be the opposite... always needing to say something!

Anyway, I'm a full-time writer and live in JHB. I love conversation, even when people don't agree with me. My heart is to see the church united (like most, I'm sure, but I have a real passion for it) so I like to research and get as many views as possible about a specific thing/doctrine etc. I like to wrestle with doctrine - orthodoxy and orthopraxy. As the Scriptures say in Prov 25: 2 - "It is the Glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out." I like searching, but also like to just enjoy being a human being - what God created me to be.

I'm part of a church family in JHB where I have amazing friends and elders who are always open to discuss pretty much anything. Some of the things I believe aren't conventional (I think), and it's great that everyone is OK with that there. I don't classify myself under any type of Christian label - I'm not interested in being conservative, liberal, emergent, pentecostal, or any label. I'd prefer just being a man who loves God and wants to see His Kingdom come.

I'm also a musician, and really want to break boundaries in the way we worship in our churches.

See? Already I've written too much.

Would really love to hear more from the lurkers here...

Oh, and by the way, Rog I'm a little jealous that you're joining the monastic community. And the experience you recently wrote about on FutureChurch at a monastic community made me even more jealous. I've been wanting to do that for so long now!

www.ryanpeterwrites.com
"The Glory of God is man fully alive" - St Iraneaus

gareth.b's picture

hi (sigh), my name is...

Gareth.

All: "Hi gareth."

(Going for the AA-meeting-introduction-feel. It's not as easy in a subject line, but what the heck.)

I'm Gareth. One of the newbies here so can't be blamed for lurking for too long (though the idea is enticing). I lost track of Roger's points allocation. I grew up, went to school, worked and played Ultimate frisbee* in Jhb and Pretoria for 25 years.

*(If you haven't heard of, or played Ultimate Frisbee before, subtract a "ka-zillion" points. Ed.)

I also studied good reformed theology at the University of Pretoria, had a (great) stint working at a church in Randburg, spent Christmas at a Benedictine monastery in New Mexico, and most recently studied some more theology at a Presbyterian Seminary in Atlanta (Walter Bruegemann is the hot-shot there). 6 months ago i moved to Cape Town where I work with public policy and advocacy at the SA Council of Churches Parliamentary Office. Still new to CT, but i already notice some faces on the Lurker hall of fame. Keen for stimulating conversations and contacts in Slaap Stad if anyone knows of some.
Did i mention i play Ultimate Frisbee?

nicpaton's picture

forget the theology, lets do frisbee

Well blow me sideways, we have an opening for an deputy ultimate frisbee youth minister in our church, the 2nd congregation of the Delphic UFO.
- Are you afraid of heights?
- Are you able to work under an extraterestrial boss?
- What are your rates? Whatever they are, can you survive on half?
- Seriously, what IS your score by the Saner index of Insanity?

PS heres our regular : http://capeconversation.wordpress.com/regulars/

delurking

I'm not really a blog-lurker, but haven't been reading this blog for very long and haven't felt the need to comment! I am a Methodist with emergent tendancies. Probably, I'm more conservative than most people involved in this blog, however in most Methodist contexts I am seen as a little dangerous. Theologically, pretty conservative, but a bit radical in the expression of that theology, how we 'do' church and never taking the status quo for granted. I stay in Randburg. I enjoy hearing what other people are doing for church.

nicpaton's picture

welcome

Hi Jenny. Your name is very familiar.

I'm interested in why people see you as dangerous?

Dangerous

Hi Nic
You may know my name from the futurechurch blog.
I think dangerous is relative. You must see the look on my minister's face if I walk in and say 'I have an idea'. It's odd, because generally they work out quite well. But I think Methodists in general (not all by any means) are used to doing things a certain way and variations are challenging. It took our church about 18 months to let me put up a working web page. We had a street party to advertise the evening service. We did 'church in a coffee shop' for a while, but there really wasn't the space. We did a prayer-drive, rather than a prayer-walk. Some multimedia stuff in the evening service. I don't think it's dangerous . . . And - in my minister's defence - he has been more accomodating than anyone else I've worked with!

Marius Brand's picture

About me (& Amahoro)

I wouldn't exactly call myself a lurker, more like one of those little guys who stands on the edge of a bar fight and throws in a cheap shot every now and then when it's safe to do so.

I am a minister in the Presbyterian church but lecture full-time at Cornerstone Christian College in Cape Town where I spend most of my time trying to shatter illusions and pry open closed minds.

From this year I will also be the South African coordinator for Amahoro Africa, so for those of you who are looking for genuine, post-colonial, African, emerging conversations, watch this space...

We still have space for 5 South Africans to attend the Rwanda Gathering in May (20th -28th) so if you want a life-changing experience and if you really want to engage with the reality of African Christianity, then contact me NOW.

On the topic of dangerous heretics just remember: heresy is the beginning of all good theology...

brendonasch's picture

Another Lurker confession

Hi All

I have just moved to Johannesburg as Youth Ministry Director at a Church in Randburg. I spent the previous 9.5 years at a Church in Somerset West. I have not visited this blog for a while, but have kind of reconnected via the Facebook Emerging Church group.

I have read four of Brian McLaren's books and I am watching the whole emerging Church conversation with interest.

Is this something God is doing, and if so what is he doing?

My wife works for a division of Medi clinic in Pretoria, I have a 3 year old daughter called Nina, and a son due to be born in March.

Brendon Asch
Youth Ministry Director
Randpark Ridge United Church

Stephen's picture

The Police are Here!

I'm Stephen Murray

I'm 26 and live in Claremont Cape Town. I'm currently a post graduate theology student at the most conservative evangelical college around(although it depends upon how you define 'conservative' and 'evangelical'), George Whitefield College, after having done my undergraduate study at the second most conservative evangelical college, The Bible Institute of South Africa. Before that I was a youth pastor for 3 years in Durban and before that I studied English and Classical Greek and Roman literature and culture at UKZN. I'm an ordinand for the Church of England in South Africa (CESA) - that means they're going to make me wear a collar at some stage (only at the ordination and never again!), but I'll face that hurdle when I get there.

If you've been around this site for a while you'll know that apparently I fulfill the role of the Theology Police Department - busting heresy wherever it is found!

Funny thing is that I still, in many ways consider myself emerging. I'm super conservative on some things (like the role of scripture in the Christian life and experience) but super loose on others (like church forms, worship, ministry styles). If you use Ed Stetzer's breakdown of the emerging church then I probably land in the 'reformed relevants' category with guys like Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, Rick McKinley, Donald Miller etc. I have quite a lot of time for the non-reformed relevants too like Dan Kimball and for the 'reconstructionists' like Alan Hirsch. My struggle comes with the revisionists like big Brian and the rest of Emergent YS.

And so, as I've expressed to Roger, I'm the guy who sits in the middle - the problem is that I have an opinion and so I get shot at by people from both sides. It can be fun though and I must say that even though Emerging Africa has a much stronger 'revisionist' flavour than the other two camps I've found the non-lurkers here to be full of grace and humility in dialogue (For that Rog can give 50 points to all non-lurker revisionists!).

My interest is in developing and planting theologically reformed missional churches in the urban centers of this country.

I blog at a blog called daylight where I try to encourage, inform, question and rant all in one blog.

greetings

Stephen, greetings from Jhb. I'm Peter...already ordained in the Orthodox Church... i look forward to some chats... Have a great academic year.

watchman007's picture

the lurkers, lurchers and all other creepy things - be gone!

I've registered so am no longer a lurking lurch! Thank G-d for that. I'm feeling liberated already.
This has always been a awesome site to read but an intimidating one to comment on - hence the silence.
Cape Town based, hard-working, pregnant (yes another WOW-man joins emerging). My greatest aspiration would be to live a life of love. Scientifiucally for every atom in my being to contain love for others (this includes G-d), for there to be no vacant space within. Nothing too impossible, and since it's an on-going objective, i may be around for sometime...

love, by my definition includes creativity.. for those who don't usually!

Great to have a site like this. Thank you all for the inspiration.

nicpaton's picture

hmmm, familiar perfume...

Hello watchman-WOWman, I have an incling as to who you might be. (nudge nudge walter wink.) Were you aware that upside down wowman is uawmam? hmmm...

Anyway I am intruiged as to how you plan to get every atom in you to contain love. That's a great aspiration!

Lurker Shirker

Hey there. I must say I find it quite daunting committing thoughts to public forum like this and have been lurking for a while....its that fear of once its all out there and there's no return. Aaaaaaargh!!

Anyway, I'm intrigued. Intrigued by the honesty I find in these pages and an earnest desire to deal with our post modern culture....at times I have felt like weeping with gratitiude to see issues addressed. Finally a place where a thinking person is not a threat!!! (and what's more a WOW-man thinking person).

I have loads of questions though. Like one my friend Simon raised "how do you know that what you know is the truth (I mean assurance of the integrity of what i believe, in addition to the defensive weeding out doctrines of demons)". In a post-modern world truth does not exist, everything is just "points of view". Even here in this dialogue there are many point s of view.
In the mystery and clarity of what the Bible reveals (as Roger refers to on the futurechurch website) we know and yet we don't. Truth in the Bible is simultaneously revealed and veiled.
At the end of the day (Matt 7) I guess our lives tell the real story!! And I guess chatting about it all also helps to sift the shaft from the wheat.
I have so far to go...only just begun.

Cori's picture

Gentle Aggressor

Roger, this is the best blog post EVER to appear on this site and has changed the whole atmosphere for me. Being on this side of the Boerewors Curtain must be doing good things for you! (I know you wrote this before you moved, but nevertheless...!).

I've been quite active on this site for a while and then had phases of feeling embarassed by what I've written or frustrated by what others have written and then again frustrated with my inability to articulate myself effectively to others. Hence the 'gentle aggressor' - most people who know me see me as a shy, gentle, quiet person yet my husband, Kevin (http://mexc.blogspot.com) can assure you that when I feel strongly about something I have no trouble letting other people know about it :)

Great to see some more women introducing themselves. The role (or lack there of) of women in Christian conversations in every sphere in South Africa and worldwide is one of the more close-to-home issues I'm working through (and this has sometimes manifested itself on this site!). I really hope it is something I can continue to work through in dialogue with others on this site.

Apart from writing angry things about white men on blog sites I work for an NGO that runs a life transforming 'alternative discipline' program in high schools in Pretoria and am completing my PhD on reconciliation in Rwanda.

Late entry

I have just come back from seven years in the UK to this wonderful but scarred country. While in the UK and about 10 years behind the times I became aware of this 'emergent church' thing and have voraciouly read blogs, websites (pro and con) and even bought a Brian McLaren book. Knowing I was returning to Africa, I googled 'emerging church africa' or something and ended up here.

I am drawn to this 'conversation' as I believe a whole new space has been opened up by the emerging church and I am keen to explore the bigness of God in this space. My problem is that this has been a bit of a lonely journey for me because this is totally off the radar for my peers (including my wife). They are quite happy with the church status quo. They don't know what post modernism is. (Neither do I really!). They've never heard of blogs and wouldn't see the point of reading them so would never interact with even the most accessible introduction to the basic ideas. So for me this pursuit as sort of a private act of worship more than anything else.

Nevertheless I am keen to continue exploring this path. My other problem is that I am in Durban (Ballito actually) and it seems like the emergent action in SA in in Joburg or Cape Town. Its just too laid back here for things like that... But I am keen to be proved wrong, so is there anyone out there from Durbs?

Ant

nicpaton's picture

Calling Ant from Ballito

Ant
We are sending an envoy (and he answers to the name called "envoy" too) to Durban from 10th to the 13th May, and he would be happy to meet with you (or anyone else for that matter). Leave your details here.

Ok I should read this more often

Nic,

I missed your reply! Thanks for the heads-up, sorry I missed it by about 3 weeks!!!

If you or anyone is in the Durban area please do drop me a note at anthony.b.gould@g*.com - I would love to buy you a drink & have a chat...

*gmail

nicpaton's picture

Or early?

Ant
Geography isn't everything. We are learning to live both on and off line.
I do have some interesting friends (not necessarily "emergent", but questers) in Durbs.
Visit our attempt to emerge in CT on http://capeconversation.wordpress.com/.
Lets keep talking, I'm happy to help the process.
Nic

Peter Veysie's picture

Africa is where we are - Yahoo

The joy of conversation is that it has no boundaries - thank the good Lord for that and an e' space is so much a pool for ideas and discussion. I am an ex surfer living in JHB and am very envious of you Durban guys.

Peter Veysie's picture

Oh who am I ?

Heh I was on this site at it's inception and haven't visited for some time. I am leading a church along with my wife Debbie, in Rivonia Johannesburg called Ridgeway Ministries, which has been going for 15 years now. We have been in the emergent zone for the past ten years and are following the path of a conversational ,arts, integrational, questioning and searching people, finding food together.

I think we should call it the "emergency church" - i.e desperately needed for survival into the future. Emerging is and was and is to come. It's the beginning and end all together. It's exciting.

I am also doing my doctorate on the future church in South Africa, with Len Sweet and Chris Peppler as my supervisors - What will it look like ? Who knows will get a jolly lolly - no just kidding - but seriously would love to hear some of what's going on in your parts of the the great big beautiful vineyard.

nicpaton's picture

sketch us something

Peter
Why don't you pop down to Durbs for a mutual edification session with Ant - it's so close for you! (I'm down in CT).

So what are you unearthing in terms of a future shape? Based on the above few lines it looks somewhat hunter-gatherer-ish.

And what medicine does one use to stay excited 15 years into the life of a fellowship?

stevel's picture

too late?

Ok, so maybe I'm too late - but i only just saw we're back online - shows just how much of a lurker I am ;-)

I'm Steven from Somerset West (that's Cape Town for non Cape-tonians and "The Village in the Sticks" for Cape-tonians). I am a Methodist Minister (no please don't shoot!).

I have always been "different" and now I've found a place where people actually think (just a little bit) like me.

I'm here because I think that "The Church" (i.e. that institutional thing not the body-of-Christ thing) has lost The Way of Christ somehow and we need to get back on track.

I do sometimes contribute - but there's loads out there and my main area of influence will remain my "oikos" and the institution God has called me to - this is just where I come when I need to find life again ;-)

Oh yeah, I'm married and have 2 children.

The church I'm currently "pastoring" is on the journey to becoming an INCLUSIVE community where ALL people can find healing and wholeness in Christ.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <em> <b> <img> <i>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options